Commons:Deletion requests/File:Roland Copé.jpg

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File:Roland Copé.jpg

likely copyright violation: [1], photograph by Studio Harcourt Antimuonium (talk) 06:38, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

•  Keep The Studio Harcourt archive was bought by the French government and released under a CC license. That is why we house several thousand images in the category. --RAN (talk) 01:08, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
  • Interesting. Please provide a link so that can be verified (definitely could be useful in undeleting photos by Studio Harcourt). Abzeronow (talk) 15:52, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

    @Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) please see the above comment. Best, —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 17:24, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

One thing is certain, it is that the archive acquired by the French government is not released under a CC license. The Harcourt photos hosted on Commons either were licensed by Harcourt or are considered to be in the public domain. Details below. -- Asclepias (talk) 00:41, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

• The company is still making new images, the transfer was for images up to 1991. The VRT is here, if you have the ability to read VRTs: User:Studio Harcourt --RAN (talk) 17:46, 23 March 2023 (UTC)https://www.lefigaro.fr/culture/2009/09/10/03004-20090910ARTFIG00352-harcourt-soixante-quinze-ans-de-classicisme-.php

  @Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) Does this change your !vote to delete? —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 17:48, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

• Is 2013 the date of the image creation or the date it was scanned? Someone who reads French and has access to the VRT can see if the agreement covers images beyond 1991, the transfer of negatives was in 1991. Note that the uploader of the newer images, is Studio Harcourt, and the studio itself appears to have released newer images not covered by the transfer to the archive. --RAN (talk) 17:50, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

It is difficult to estimate the age of the subject on the photo. He was 83 years old in 2013. It is possible that the photo was taken in 2013. Anyway, it would be prudent to assume that it was taken after 1991.

The 2010 VRT ticket (#2010061710041251) from Studio Harcourt has already been discussed. (And the whole situation about Studio Harcourt more generally has been even more abundantly discussed.) From past discussions (cf. one example there), it is known that the essential point is that VRT confirmed that the account User:Studio Harcourt on Wikimedia was indeed officially representing the Studio Harcourt. That means that the files uploaded to Commons specifically by that account are legitimately offered by Studio Harcourt under the license (CC BY 3.0) indicated by that account.

Those uploads, a sample of photos from its collection, were made in 2010 from Studio Harcourt via this account. If one reviews the files uploaded by the account chronologically, it can be observed that they were generally uploaded in alphabetical order of the subjects names. They started with names beginning with "A", "B", "C", etc., and eventually got to the letter "F", at which point they stopped. Apparently, they expected that the watermark of Studio Harcourt would be kept on those files and that the sizes could be reduced. However, some users were removing the mark from some photos (which is allowed by the license) and reverted the changes. That apparently sort of disappointed Studio Harcourt and they ended the series of uploads.

Anyway, the important point for the present discussion is that the Harcourt photos from after 1991 are simply in an ordinary copyright situation, the same as any recent work in general, i.e. they are under copyright by the copyright holder (which we assume is Studio Harcourt, unless proven otherwise) and they are not free unless the copyright holder explicitly releases them under a free license or to the public domain. The limited group of photos uploaded to Commons directly by the authorized account Studio Harcourt in 2010 are released, as mentioned above. The Studio Harcourt could always release other photos, but then Commons would need evidence of release for each photo.

The uploader of File:Roland Copé.jpg (who, from his user name, might be the subject of the photo or not) stated that he is the copyright holder of that photo. That statement is possibly an occurence of a common error of some clients who believe that they own the copyright. It is theoretically possible that the subject acquired the copyright by contract of transfer of copyright, but it cannot be assumed and Commons would need evidence of that arrangement. However, it is strange that the file has been on Commons for ten years and nobody asked the question.

About the Studio Harcourt photos from before 1992, currently they seem accepted on Commons as public domain on the basis of the 2020 VRT ticket (#2020112910005534) from Studio Harcourt. One can refer to this 2021 discussion. In short: The material negatives were acquired by the French ministry of Culture, but it is not clear that the copyright was transferred to it. The spokesperson for the Studio Harcourt says explicitly that there is no copyright on those photos and that they can be used freely. Speaking of that collection from 1934 to 1991 acquired by the ministry, she writes (my translation from French): "This photographic fonds is not under copyright, so anyone who owns a portrait from 1934-1991 may use it freely and you may use a portrait found on internet." The Commons user who obtained that statement sent a copy to VRT. It is the 2020 VRT mentioned above. On the other hand, the museal organization that publicize the collections of the ministry says that the State owns a copyright and that the photos cannot be used freely. But the statements of that organization are considered not necessarily reliable (it claims copyrights on public domain material, see the 2021 discussion). So, there are two schools of thought on Commons about those photos. Some users believe the statement by Studio Harcourt that those photos are in the public domain and can be used freely. Some other users believe the statement of the museal organization that the copyright is owned by the French ministry and that the photos cannot be used freely.

-- Asclepias (talk) 00:41, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

• Delete. Missing evidence to support the claim of the uploader that he holds the copyright on this Studio Harcourt photo. -- Asclepias (talk) 00:41, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

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Deleted: Not covered by VRT ticket and not public domain in France. --Abzeronow (talk) 18:23, 21 August 2023 (UTC)